Many of you know that I have a kind of love/not so much love relationship with Ron Shevlin. He’s an amazing writer (you should get his book, even if you are an NPS zealot like me) and an amazing debater – often with himself. But a blog post from earlier this month has really got me thinking.
He was adamant that Customer Service is NOT the New Marketing. Citing an Adweek/IQ Daily Briefing that asks the question IS Customer Service the New Marketing:
“Companies need to start treating customer service as an investment rather than an expense. The necessary ‘white glove’ level of service required to create raving fans is more expensive in the short-term, but in the long term you not only spend less supporting current customers,” he writes. “Their free word-of-mouth marketing will help you add more customers.”
I can tell you for certain, that I got white glove treatment at Nordstrom today. I know some of you are probably thinking, well, duh, Nordstrom is KNOWN for their customer service. Hmmmmm, not their marketing?
You see, I needed some new bras.
Anyway, Nordstrom cares about your bra. So much that I had this wonderful young lady spend 45 minutes with me – trying on bras. She was committed to me finding the best fit, the most attractive, and longest-lasting bras. I bought 5. I spent over $300.00. She works on commission. Customer service or marketing?
You make the call.
SIDEBAR: Did you know that 8 out of 10 women are wearing the wrong size bra? AND that Tide and Woolite greatly reduce the elasticity of your bras? Just two of the fascinating things I learned today from….customer service. Not a marketing brochure.
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June 13, 2008 at 5:13 am
CU Skeptic
Denise,
If customer service _is_ the new marketing, let me share one of the problems with this _new_ marketing method: consistency.
You see I have a “friend” whose wife had an almost identical Nordstrom experience to the one you describe. I think she only bought 2, but she raved about how great the experience was, even convinced many of her coworkers that they were probably wearing the wrong size bra and they NEEDED to go to Nordstrom to buy one. Score one for Nordstrom Customer Service as great marketing.
The problem, when my “friend’s” wife went to a different Nordstrom a month later, she was given the same act. This “rep” (or whatever they are called) told her she was wearing the wrong size, and _really_ need something completely different. Needless to say, she was more than a little flustered with that whole experience and now doubts Nordstrom as the “know all” it claims to be.
Just thought I’d share “the rest of the story”…I’ll let you marketing wiz kids debate the rest.
June 13, 2008 at 8:38 am
CU Skeptic
PS. Would also love to hear thoughts on customer service v. salesmanship. Are they one in the same? If the Nordstrom lady makes a commission off the sale, is she (and Nordstrom for that matter) really interested in customer service or sales?
June 13, 2008 at 8:51 am
Denise Wymore
I LOVE that question. So many credit unions are trying to create a culture of “needs based selling” yet they pay incentives on the sales. Does that influence?
June 17, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Glenn Coble
“CU Skeptic” has got it… I just don’t think he/she knows it. As far as I can understand, the problem in marketing (at least for us small CU’s) is convincing our front line staff that we really do care and that we can make a difference. Consistency IS the problem… not with our members or even our front line staff, but our administrations… you and me… your boss and mine. If we say we understand but our actions say we don’t, our members (customers)are turned off and they assume we are just another lying huckster.
Consistency in trying is better than consistantly spewing the same dribble with no attempt at concern for our members. For us, as soon as we start to ask.. “what will this do for the credit union,” we’ve missed the boat, but the CEO, Board and Administration must really mean they are concerned and not just pay lip service to it. Relationship building is everything in small markets.
Customer service is NOT saying “your call is important to us” (what crap) but meaning YOU are important and we want to know what you think… even if it’s bad.
As far as I can see (and I’ve been in marketing for 38 years) we are standing at the edge of a sea change in marketing and those who deny it will be left behind no matter if they are 22 or 62.
June 18, 2008 at 3:35 am
Denise Wymore
Glenn,
Amen.
June 18, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Jeffry Pilcher
The CU Skeptic is right. My first reaction when reading this post was, “Isn’t Denise talking more about sales than service?” And “How/where is the distinction between sales vs. service vs. marketing in this example?”
June 19, 2008 at 7:33 am
Rebecca Secor
Great post Denise! You know I really love a little controversy now and then.
I really think Denise is on to something…setting the bras aside. What Denise is really getting at is that service is your only real marketing tool.
Think about all the ways most consumers avoid (and often pay to avoid) traditional marketing efforts…Tivo, Do Not Call Registry, blah, blah, blah…i’m sure you’ve heard this before.
So, where does that leave the poor marketing schmucks (I can say that because, by nature, I am one)?
The only tool left is to create a great experience that will make people talk…the only way to be successful in doing this is to be extremely purposeful. Meaning EVERY piece of the experience must be reviewed from your customer or member’s perspective…does it enhance or, at least, support the experience you are trying to create? Or does it detract, feel out of place, contrived?
I have seen this done extremely well in rare occassions. But if you have the dedication, the drive and a butt-load of passion, it can be done.
Consider the Apple store…every part of the store experience is purposeful. You don’t see shelves stacked with inventory, the staff (specifically recruited because they are users, I might note) isn’t chained behind a cash wrap (I could go on and on here, and I’m sure someone else can fill in here too). Every part of the Apple store experience was engineered to get people experiencing their products. And the best part about it is that it doesn’t come off as phony, or contrived…this is just who Apple is, and who they’ve always been.
Here’s the way I see it:
Marketing is no longer about telling your members about who you want them to think you are…it’s about knowing who you are (and aren’t) then living out that promise through serving them…those who are genuine and diligent are rewarded with sales growth and intensly loyal members.
June 19, 2008 at 11:32 am
Denise Wymore
Wow Rebecca,
You nailed it. And by reading your analysis I realize that it IS probably the marketing department that created the Apple store experience, but it wasn’t the marketing department we are familiar with. The disciplines are entirely different.
In the Apple Store’s case Customer Service IS the New Marketing! Get used to it!!
PS – When you spend $82.00 on one bra, you are tempted to build a shrine to it. This baby doesn’t get shoved into my chest-of-drawers with the rest.
Cheers!
June 24, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Susan Epperson
DENISE!! I love this story. I had almost the exact same bra experience at Nordstrom. After making 2 little boys, I thought I had enough wisdom to determine my own bra size…for goodness sakes. Yeah…I was wrong. I have a size that I didn’t even know existed. And, yep, I left with an $82 bra as well. I left there with over $300 in total bra purchases.
But, I want to break down my experience with a little more background. If you can bear with me….
1a. CREATING AWARENESS
I LOVE watching “What Not To Wear” on TLC. Clinton and Stacy have made it clear that you should spend money on the essential items…especially foundation items. They gave me permission to spend more than $15 on a bra and not feel wasteful doing it.
1b. CREATING AWARENESS
Nordstrom had the Wacaul bra rep on the morning news to promote a special bra promo. They’ll fit you, and donate a percentage of today’s sales to breast cancer research.
2. A NEED
I’m 5’3″, and I’ve made 2 people. During my last pregnancy I topped out at 200lbs. Needless to say, my body has changed. Nothing I wore was comfortable. I needed a new bra or two.
3. THE SERVICE-”I’m not an idiot.”
A mother of 5 who was also a grandmother helped fit me. She wasn’t “too big for her britches” or arrogant. It was a bonding experience for me. She grabbed the perfect styles and size after measuring me. But, she never made me feel like a moron for not having figured out that I was wearing the wrong size.
4. THE RESULT
I spent about an hour there…and over $300 in bras. And honey, I baby those bras. Special handwashing and their very own drawer. And, I told my chiropractor about the experience. A few weeks later she went and had the same experience. Voila! an increase in sales.
Ok, so that was some pretty personal information, but I shared it not because I’m an exhibitionist, but to diagram the process
HOW DOES THIS APPLY TO MY JOB AS A MARKETER?
We’ve been having quite a few conversations with our members. The demographic stuff (age, income, etc.) hasn’t really been helpful. What I’ve found is that we have 2 types of members.
1. Those who aren’t very financially savvy, and they know it. They want the warm fuzzy experience and handholding. Good ole cu stuff.
2. Those who THINK they’re financially savvy (they may or may not actually be), and have some ego tied up in their experience. They want all that good service, and they want the best rates. “Sure, I like you, but if I can get a better rate down the street, I’m going. I’m smart.”
I’m not judging #2. Ask any woman what her bra size is. Do you think she doesn’t know? She would certainly be a #2. “Are you telling me I don’t know what size I should wear?” Uh…yeah…that’s exactly what I’m telling you.
Spending over $300 at Nordstrom for bras really wasn’t about an impulse trip. It was:
- lots of episodes of “What Not To Wear”
- a body that was in perpetual change
- a “special” that gave me a reason to try something new
- a nice lady who made sure I didn’t feel like an idiot
For me, it was about more than just a great service experience in Nordstrom. There was some background leading up to it all.
Now, here are my questions…
As ethical [cu] marketers, what’s our responsibility to build that background? And, how do we justify those costs (of time, money, etc.) to do it?
June 25, 2008 at 3:59 am
Denise Wymore
Susan,
I can always count on you to take it up a notch! Brilliant!!
Building relationships (trust) takes time. I got in a great debate recently with a credit union executive that said, if a new member isn’t willing to participate fully in the credit union (and their measure was aggregate balance and services per household) then we don’t want them. A brand new member. Someone just walking in the door.
Your post proves that to gain true loyalty and to, quite bluntly, spend a ton o’ money, trust, word-of-mouth, a little incentive, be there during critical life events, be focused…..these are all essential to the relationship. And it’s hard.
Nordstrom has never been secretive about what makes them so good. So, why don’t we copy it? Cuz it’s hard. AND, as you so eloquently pointed out…it takes time.
Thanks Susan!