Have you eve been accused of something you didn’t do? And there’s no real way to prove that you DIDN’T do it?
I don’t think I’ve ever been this angry. I don’t cry often, I’m usually a pretty perky person but last night I sobbed. It’s over. My relationship with Saturn is so over.
As many of you know, I have been fiercely loyal to my Saturns. From my first, the SC1 named Toonces, and to Cordelia, and Ruby, and Buttercup to my 2008 VUE, Sunkist. I name my cars. I love my Saturns. I actually used to look forward to taking my car in for oil changes. I used to get chocolates and flowers and my car washed.
Not anymore. Saturn of Smithtown is what car dealers are known for. Uncaring, looking for a way to get out of warranty service. They are everything Saturn tried NOT to be.
When I took my VUE in for an oil change last month. Not only did I get the car back dirty (no complimentary car wash, no little treats) BUT I also found out two days later I got my car back with a loose oil filter – thank god for the oil and check engine lights that came on right when I was coming off the interstate in Massachusetts. And thanks to Jon Reske from UMass Five College Credit Union for being my knight in shining armor and driving to an automotive store to get me oil so I could limp into the Springfield Saturn for a quick and painless oil fix!
But yesterday I took my car back to Saturn of Smithtown. I have a nasty leak somewhere in the passenger side. Thought it was coming from the engine. Turns out it’s in the seal of the windshield.
Tim calls me last night at 5:00 (after having my car since 7:30am) “So, when did you get your windshield replaced?” he asks. “What? I haven’t had my windshield replaced?”
My car has 7,200 miles on it. I would know if the windshield had been replaced.
Bottom line: They will not cover it under warranty because it does not have a “GM stamp” on the glass. They have basically accused me of lying. Trying to screw them out of warranty work. Wow.
So Tim at Saturn of Smithtown and his service manager decided they would not cover the repair. I didn’t even ask what it would cost to fix it. I’m done.
I posted on the Rip-Off Report blog this morning only to find another “rip off report” from the same dealership.
I guess my tears came not only from being accused of lying, but I think I had some pent up emotion from the move. New York is not the Northwest. So far I haven’t really missed Seattle or Portland – but something about the way I was treated. I guess it all just came flooding out.
I still don’t have my car – the XM radio stopped working AGAIN. We decided to leave a smaller carbon footprint in NY so it’s our only car. Oh, and the worse part, we don’t have any coffee in the house.
Saturn is gone – the economy sucks – it’s raining.
Thank God it’s Friday.
UPDATE (June 1st, 2009): Rochelle Petis, Executive Member Service of GM just called. She read about my problem and was determined to get to the bottom of it. Well…..in a much nicer and more detailed way, she basically said there was nothing they could do for me.
Today GM filed bankruptcy. I feel like America filed moral bankruptcy today. When are we going to learn? When is this disease of corporate greed going to be cured?
I cried on the phone to Ms Petis. I told her my sorrow came from the fact that I had hope that by treating people well (my Saturn love of gifts and cheers and tchotchkes) and being honest (not dickering on the sticker but pricing cars fairly) would result in success. That companies would learn that they don’t have to screw people over to make money. That loyalty has its rewards.
GM should fail. Big banks should fail. Too big to fail is killing us. Sure, there’s going to be lots of pain and suffering, but if we don’t rip off this band-aid, we’ll never heal.
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21 comments
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May 15, 2009 at 8:16 am
Ashli Moore
So, because of one (or two) bad choices by two or three individual people, you are going to demote the whole brand…I know you have a history with Saturn so it is more the nail in the coffin type of thing going on here, but what if this happened at your favorite credit union, would you write them up on ripoff and be done with it…I doubt it…
I don’t mean this to be rude or mean in any way, just another way of thinking about this situation that, given what I have read on your blog over the past year would not be considered out of line.
Thanks for allowing me to comment.
May 15, 2009 at 8:45 am
Jonathan Gowins
Ah, so frustrating. If only Saturn knew what that dealership was doing to their brand…or maybe that is the new standard of “service” for them regardless now. They messed with the wrong lady lol. Good luck finding a new brand to be loyal too (Toyota anyone?).
May 15, 2009 at 9:51 am
Denise Wymore
@Ashli – Thank you so much for your comment. I meant to put links to my previous posts about my “ongoing” dysfunctional relationship with Saturn.
Here’s the First: https://denisewymore.wordpress.com/2008/07/25/my-dear-john-letter-from-saturn/
Here’s the Second: https://denisewymore.wordpress.com/2009/04/07/i-came-back-because-i-thought-you-cared/
I hope I don’t come off as being so impatient with poor service that I’ll blast you – in fact, I try to balance my bitching with praising companies that do it right.
I started my conversation (this time) with Saturn very calm, acknowledging the GM situation, the uncertainty of the future and my pledge to continued loyalty – None of that mattered. So, the gloves did come off.
@Jonathan – I did warn them and give them a chance to change their mind. I told them about my book, my blog, my IM Saturn membership. Didn’t matter.
You’re right – they messed with the wrong lady.
I gotta say – I am so sick of poor customer service, I think, as consumers we sometimes DO have to take a stand.
I think America’s brand is very tarnished right now from all of the greed and corruption and stupidity in corporate America. GM is on the top of that dysfunctional heap – and considering my tax dollars are going to help “bail them out” the least they could do is make good on their warranty.
Whew – that felt good.
May 16, 2009 at 9:18 am
Tim McAlpine
It all makes sense to me. Saturn will likely become part of the Department of Motor Vehicles, so all of the staff have just gone through the government training program to strip any human emotion out of them.
And, on an NPS note, this is actually an upgrade for GM! Bad profits are better than no profits! Right. 🙂
Sorry, I know your situation sucks, but I thought I would try to make you smile.
May 16, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Denise Wymore
@Tim – LOL!
You’re right! Saturn IS the government now – I thought it felt eerily familiar. DMV is spot on.
And I supposed you could look at their warranty refusal as their commitment to repaying taxpayers………
You did make me smile – thanks.
May 18, 2009 at 5:22 am
Denise Wymore
UPDATE!!
I got an email this morning from Executive Customer Assistance at GM with a direct dial number to a lovely woman who was very apologetic about my experience and is going to “get to the bottom” of the issue for me…..
Oh please Saturn – let’s fix this relationship…..
She responded to my posting on IM Saturn.com.
May 18, 2009 at 5:56 am
Glenn Coble
I think Ashli has hit on a problem all thoughtful, kind people face everyday. How can one complain in a truly constructive manner. Sometimes I think the most constructive way is to explain, complain and get on the plane.
If you have explained the problem including the resolution thoroughly, complained so the offender understands that you are serious, your final option is to walk.
For those of us who grew up with parents who preached “if you can’t say something nice don’t say anything at all,” this is difficult. After years of marketing, owning a business, and reading as much as possible about customer service, sometimes the best thing for a loyal customer to do is tell the company to “kiss off.”
Once at our local McDonald’s (possibly the worst in the nation) I had had enough so I explain to the 16 year old, over pierced, possibly brain dead order taker what my problem was. Her response was a grunt and a look to the customer behind me with a warm, “next.” My unglueing was complete and I let her and everyone within earshot hear my complaint.
As my embarrassed wife and I left the McDonald’s without paying, my wife complained “she can’t do anything about the problem.” I agreed but sometimes the only way to get a complaint to the top is through percolation upward. I know my complaint was heard by the manager. I saw her watching from afar. To leave without paying (I didn’t eat anything) was my only way to make my action felt above.
I really doubt that anything will be done about my complaint but if enough complaints come in someones knee will jerk and there might be a change in policy.
I believe a lack of honest service (not the “you’re call means alot to us, please hold,” service) is the beginning of the end of most company’s. Keep an eye on McDonald’s, your beloved Saturn, Walmart and yes, Ashli, some of those bloated credit unions that have forgotten that size does matter. Most times in a negative way.
How many times can one turn the cheek.
May 18, 2009 at 6:19 am
Denise Wymore
@Glenn – I did apologize to Tim at Saturn of Smithtown on Friday for “dropping the F bomb” on him. I didn’t use it in an “F You” way but rather screamed on the phone “I didn’t replace the F-ing windshield!”….but still….I felt kind of embarrassed afterward.
According to one of my favorite books “A Complaint is a Gift” the top three reasons why the majority of consumers never complain:
1. They don’t think anyone cares.
2. Even if they DO care, nothing will change.
3. Fear of confrontation.
I have to admit when Joe, the Service Manger went all Soup Nazi on me “No more service for you!” and told me to just come pick up the car. I was a little nervous. I made Mark go with me because I feared more confrontation.
How many times can one turn the cheek? Great question….thanks for your comments everyone!
May 19, 2009 at 9:24 am
Dwight Johnston
Oh Man…. I missed this. Sorry… but hearing that you let loose on the phone then feared confrontation was too funny. I wish he had received your wrath in person. He deserved no apology whatsoever. In fact give me his phone number and I’ll crank call him. But, I’m sure you’ve have enough wine now to make it all go away. Sorry about your love lost for Saturn. But the fact is that since there are plenty of substitutes, you will never feel the same way about the brand. That’s an important lesson. A company selling a product or service (cus take note) that is essentially a commodity absolutely has to worry about one or two bad apples. Making excuses for them doesn’t cut it. It will be interesting to hear how Saturn tries to make amends.
May 19, 2009 at 9:45 am
Denise Wymore
@DJ,
You do not mess with me when it comes to my Saturn. It really has been so sad – this relationship, I fear is truly at an end.
A friend of mine called me this morning and said “Why do you continue to do business with these people? We need to stage an intervention!?” She’s right. It’s getting a little weird now.
The thought of going to a car dealer, just a regular one and “dickering” and slimy-game-playing-yuk – gawd. But you’re right – I will never feel the same about Saturn after this. I am anxious to see what GM is going to offer. And secretly hoping it will be enough for me to forgive…….aaaaccckkkkk!!! I need help.
May 28, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Lisa Coates
Buttercup!!! Such fond memories. In fact I passed the Saturn dealership on TV Hwy in Beaverton not too long ago and thought of you and Buttercup. I know it would take something big (or a whole lotta somethings to add up) for you to end your relationship with Saturn. Enjoying your blogs … !! :0)
June 2, 2009 at 12:01 pm
John Valenti
Lisa,
I found this from your comment on Consumers Reports site…. just curious if you have thoughts on how this windshield ended up not having the GM label? I take it you bought the car new, and would know if the glass had been replaced.
Seems curious. I would certainly contact your region’s service manager for followup (or maybe Rochelle was your last option?). Seems like small claims court might be necessary.
I’m sorry you are having such problems with a domestic car company. I think they have gotten better since the 70’s (almost on par with Toyota, etc), but still have a way to go. [I’m just as a Michigan citizen, a computer guy, not directly tied to auto industry]
PS – don’t be afraid of dickering. Or rather, do research online, establish a fair price and check with dealers. If they won’t be reasonable, say “so long”.
June 2, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Denise Wymore
Dear John,
Thanks for your comment and your advice. The windshield will remain the biggest mystery. I did buy the car new. It only has 7100 miles on it. I would know if I replaced the windshield. It’s not like a light bulb – it’s a big deal.
AND, if I had – wouldn’t I have gone to whomever replaced it for the repair? Why would I be dogging Saturn?
I have a photo of my VUE. I took it the day I brought her home (Sunkist is her name). I would love to send this photo into some crime lab so they can digitally enhance it (or whatever they do) so they can read the stamp on the windshield when I took delivery. I mentioned this to Rochelle – but she had to admit that that still wouldn’t be proof. How would they KNOW that the car was brand new. I told her – because the license plates aren’t on there yet – it’s still got the dealer’s fake plate. Wellll….she said……so it comes down to trust.
They don’t trust me. How can I possibly trust them.
I may see if I can get that photo enhanced just for the hell of it. I have to know….
I’ll be dickering on a Toyota soon……thanks for the tip.
June 3, 2009 at 4:41 am
Denise Wymore
Update regarding Saturn dealership and warranty work.
http://consumerist.com/5276584/who-will-perform-warranty-service-on-my-pontiac-saab-hummer-saturn
Not looking good for any kind of warranty work. I mean, sure, the government says they’ll stand by the warranties. But what the hell does that mean? I couldn’t get warranty work from an actual Saturn dealer – now I go to Obama?
I think he’s a little busy right now….
June 3, 2009 at 9:43 pm
justin
hi,
If your windshield was replaced by you, being the car had so little mileage on it, you would have had collision on it and therfore glass coverage. This is traceable through your insurance company and vin # of your car. If this is hows things happened the person who replaced your windshield would be fixing your leak.
The other possibility is that damage was done at the dealership and they didnt want to eat the cost of an “OE” piece of glass so they replaced it with aftermarket glass which is a fraction of the price and quality.
A dealer can make up to I believe $2500 in repairs to a vehicle that has been damaged and still sell it as new without telling the potential customer that anything ever happened to your ” brand new car”. I personally think this fact is complete BS because no one that I know would pay full price for a “new car” that has had damage repaired.
If you don’t want to let them off the hook, you can try (if you havent already) tracing your vin # to find a possible repair. If they paid cash out of pocket for the repair there may be no record, but maybe these people were not bright enough to cover their tracks.
I’m sorry for your frustration and e mail me if you think I could be of any help. Don’t worry when all else fails, karma still applies.
June 4, 2009 at 4:32 am
Denise Wymore
@ Justin,
Thanks for the tip. It does drive me crazy. GM DID admit to my car having major electrical problems. The service manager at Lynwood Saturn blurted out “Oh, I’ll never forget THAT VUE! When we picked it up on the dock it wasn’t running, had major electrical problems that took us forever to fix.”
Swell – but they happily sold me that car (without disclosure) for full price.
I am going to try and trace my VIN….I like that idea…….stay tuned….
June 4, 2009 at 7:37 am
John Valenti
Denise,
I was thinking more about your windshield…
(1) the dealer must be truly crappy. It isn’t like the glass is broken. It seems like they just need to take it off, caulk it properly, and re-attach it. Maybe 2 hours labor?
(2) how about putting the word out on Saturn sites and have people check their windshields for the label. If even a few people responded that their glass was missing the label, it would be more evidence in your favor.
(I just looked at my Aveo, it does say something like “GMdatHan”)
(3) I still think you would win in small claims court. If you testify that you haven’t replaced the windshield, and your insurance company states they haven’t covered a claim on it. And ask the GM person (if they show up) to identify the person at the factory that checks each piece of glass for the label.
I know fiddling around with court takes a psychic toll, but we must hold these companies accountable.
PS – you are in Oregon, right? Just curious why your Vue was on a dock? I thought Saturns were made in USA. Why wouldn’t it come via rail or truck?
If you were closer to DC, I would suggest pulling up on the sidewalk in front of the Treasury building and picketing. Ask which garage door to use for warranty work. Probably a long drive for some quick tasering excitement and a visit to the DC jail. You could be in the media for about 10 seconds. 🙂
Or maybe they would just want to get rid of you quickly, and load you up with some bailout cash.
June 4, 2009 at 7:55 am
Denise Wymore
John,
According to my “sticker” my car was assembled in Mexico! I know!!!
I just moved to New York so your DC idea is just a train ride away — I love a good public demonstration that ends in tasering!
June 4, 2009 at 1:02 pm
John Valenti
Oh, if you are in New York state, I had the impression that they might have some stronger consumer protections laws. Not sure what office, but ask around.
But take the Saturn to DC. The visual of the car in need of warranty work would help. “Ok Obama, you said the government was backing the warranty. Here’s a car, fix it!”
June 4, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Denise Wymore
John,
I should! My VUE is the Orange one too! Hard to miss!
July 13, 2009 at 10:44 am
Keegan
Hello Denise, I found your site through consumer reports. I have the same car you do and I wanted to add my story on here as well.
My wife, and her parents all have Saturns. They have never had a problem with the service or with the cars. They love them. So when I was with my wife when she bought her ’07 Ion, I was looking around, and I fell in love with the ’08 Vue. What a gorgeous car. The orange is a great color and the features list was very nice, even for the standard one.
So about a year later when I could “afford” to get a new car, I went back to Saturn to check out the new Hybrids. Well I come to find out that the hybrid VUE at the time was only a partial hybrid and only worked under 25 m/h. Weird but I accepted it. Took the ’09 out for a spin, it was great so since they didn’t have the orange in the ’09, I bought a dealer model ’08 orange VUE.
However the sales people saw me coming a mile away. I think they gave me the “better for them” of the 2 discounts I qualified for, and now I get spam email from GM because of it every month. I was lied to by the finance people about taking the extended warranty was required by the banks for some one in “my situation” (recently married, employed full time for over a year at the same location, with a positive debt to income ratio). I found out later that they cannot require that for financing… period.
So then before I leave I notice something minor was broken. They had me come back in the next week to get it looked at. When I came back I asked if my car needed an oil change since it was at 6k miles. (Mind you I only had it a week and I was riding my bike to work… so I put 40 miles on it myself). The answer I got was “probably.” So I made an appointment for the next week to get the car fixed (cause they didnt have the part they needed to fix it… meh works for me) and for an oil change.
Two weeks later, my oil life monitor goes off and OnStar called Saturn for me to tell them about it. They called me in and they replaced the oil. The reason this went off is because the oil life monitor didn’t get reset with my last oild change. I said enough of this. I when I left, I walked over to the service counter and asked for a complete history of my car. Well of course they couldn’t give that to me… cause as was evident to me by now, no one actually looks at it. So I got the paperwork with my 3 oil changes…. 3? Wait what? This car has 6.5k miles on. Apparently since mine was a dealer demo car, they give it an oil change before they put it on the lot. 3 oil changes in less than a month! Go Saturn.
OK so being an informed consumer now (and I knew before things could be right with this thing), I took my wife to the bank, and while she was in there I cracked open the owners manual and looked up how to reset my oil life monitor. I sat there for a good 20 minutes and “reset” it over and over again. There’s no confirmation that it actually gets reset, so I didn’t know if i was even doing it right.
Well then about a week after that, my oil life sensor goes off… AGAIN! What the heck. So this time OnStar called Saturn… but Saturn didn’t even call me back. So I called them about a week later about this. I brought it in and I told them what I did and they only thing they could tell me is that “the procedure in the Owner’s Manual doesn’t work”. OK so what can you do to fix this situation? I asked. Well they can use the computer to reset… but they were doing that before. So they just told me to ignore the amber light on my dash and the weekly phone calls because its a known issue in the VUE’s that the computer just doesn’t work on some models. (My oil life monitor doesn’t always reset, my thermometer on the outside of the car is always about 5-10 degrees off (which they reset once), the tire pressure monitors go off when they feel like it).
So long story, even longer, I took out a loan and paid for $30,000 car that only works about 1/2 the time with the features that I paid for. I called GM’s “Customer Service” and asked what they were going to do about this. “Nothing sir, there is nothing wrong with your car.” OK then I asked if we could disable the “features” so that I would stop getting false positives. “No sir, that would be tampering with your car and would void your warranty.” I reiterated that I paid 30000 for a car with feature that do not work and asked what they would do about it. “Nothing sir, there is nothing wrong with your car. You should be keeping track of your mileage yourself and not have to rely on the car to tell you.”
Needless to say I am very disappointed in my Saturn. They really made a big mistake on the ’08 VUE. It’s a pretty car but I wouldn’t wish one on my enemies. I can’t wait until my warranty expires so I can go somewhere else for maintenance. (Because I was tricked into the full coverage warranty, I won’t throw my money away going elsewhere)
Well thank you for reading my rant. I laugh because they always call me 2-3 days after my visit saying they are going to send me a survey to rate the quality of service and I am always TOLD what to put on there. However I have never once received a survey. My calls to GM, of course, fall on deaf ears because they don’t seem care about customer loyalty from their customers. Oh well as of right now I am with you. This is my (first and) last Saturn.